From a thread

October 3, 2008 § 7 Comments

This is a posting I made on a forum I belong to in which a fiery debate has been raging. These were my thoughts on the subject.

Allow me to interject my two cents to this conversation. I understand that your paradigm is different from that of Tonya’s and others here. And I know that many resent what they consider a "religious perspective" dictating legislation, or effecting how they want to live. But I believe this is not merely a "religious" issue. It is a human issue, and it speaks to the heart of how we view and treat one another, regardless of our status or stage of development. It is an historical fact that a society’s views on children (born and unborn) is reflective of that society’s greater treatment of human life. Nations that are currently being pointed out for violation of human rights have long held practices of abortion, and infanticide.

The slippery slope you spoke of in regards to assigning human rights to the fetus is currently working in reverse right here in our own country. That slippery slope that you see as being a violation of a woman’s rights is slipping down the other side, to the point of allowing born children to be killed or allowed to die. This is not some feudal medieval society. This is not China or some barbaric third world nation. This is the United States of America, where our "freedoms" are being twisted and perverted, so that "all men being created equal" only applies to those who can afford it.

Note that Planned Parenthood is not in the rich neighborhoods. They are in the poor neighborhoods. No one is pointing out that it is much easier for certain groups to have abortions on demand in this country than others, or what that means. The poor, and the Urban areas, and the "minorities" are being slaughtered before birth, and encouraged to do so. Yes, I said it. The government s sanctioning the slaughter of minorities. Who is going to speak for them? To point out poverty stricken sub-cultures and say because they are miserable, they should have been killed before birth is mind boggling. I wish some folks would listen to themselves. And to dismiss the only thing that is 100%– abstinence– as being nonsensical and "not working" is backwards thinking. Societies have practiced over-riding abstinence for years, and didn’t have the problems we do today. There are still cultures around the world for whom abstinence before marriage is a way of life and they do not have the abortion or infanticide rate we do here. To trot out scare tactics of botched back alley abortions happening on every corner is ludicrous. A society that acts responsibly together is not plagued by such things. I’m not saying they don’t and haven’t happened, but they certainly were never to the magnitude proponents claim.

To point out rape and incest as a basis for the need for abortions on demand is reaching, because MOST unwanted pregnancies are NOT the product or rape and incest. Those two events, though they do happen, do not happen as often as those who promote abortion would have us think. Most unwanted pregnancies, by and large, are due to ignorance and irresponsible behavior, or poverty and an over-burdened society– i.e. a mother of 5 who lives in a poor neighborhood and doesn’t think she can handle another one. But do we really want to be a society who says, "There are just too many people here. Let’s kill some of them." And yes, I know there are plenty of folks saying that now. Are we a society who values human life or not? Why do some people value the rights of animals over a child’s? How can a person criticize China’s practices, yet support the very same in our own nation?

I hear folks on the other side of the fence demanding that pro-lifers put their money where their mouth is and adopt these unwanted babies. The implication is that they aren’t. This is a fallacious argument, since there are many parents, groups and services out there trying to offer adoption as a viable choice. I also hear "It’s unfair to force someone to go through with a pregnancy they don’t want." So it is therefore fair to kill the "offending" child? The child, in any case, is not at fault for being conceived.

The fact of the matter is that people want freedom from consequences. This is truly NOT an issue of “oh wow, some horrible thing happened to that girl and it would be unfair to make her suffer for it.” The truth is, “Oh man, I SO do not want a baby right now, that will totally crimp my style. I better get rid of it.” And that is the truth. License to do what ever we want, at the cost of ANOTHER’S civil liberties is the core of the abortion matter. It doesn’t matter what your religious beliefs are, or how you view life, or when you think it starts. Abortion, at it’s heart, is about selfishness and an unwillingness to allow another’s life to impact one’s own. And now we are a nation that today is currently practicing infanticide. The slippery slope has been slid, ladies. The horse has left the barn, the cake has been baked. We are a nation that legislates murder, free form. You can justify all you want, but Rome went this way as well, and we can all count how many Romans we see walking around, can’t we?

A society that refuses to acknowledge the rights of its citizenry, no matter how young, or small, or weak, is doomed to failure.

Today we see in practice what George Orwell wrote in Animal Farm, "All animals are created equal– but some are more equal than others."


If those who would call themselves Christians would truly come out from from this world, and act as the Kingdom we are called to be, we could provide the shelter from life’s storms by which so many are afflicted. If we would come together under our Lord’s headship, and learn to love the way we are called, we would be the answer to society’s problems. If we were willing to allow Jesus’ teachings to transform us, and make us new, we could boast, "there are no poor in our midst."

It is not the government’s place to fix society and solve the woes of humanity. That is the Church’s calling, and our burden.

If we will not love the least of these with the sacrificial love Jesus demonstrated, we cannot expect the world to do it for us. The world’s answer is murder and misery. A Christian should be able to offer Life, and Hope.

If you are a Christian, or call yourself one, think about the words Jesus spoke, and the Life He gave, and the expectations He has of us. His final prayer before returning to the Father was that we would love one another, and that we would be One. Let us work towards that goal.

If you are not a Christian, I beg pardon for the horrible witness you have probably received from myself and my brothers and sisters. You are right to call us hypocrites, but I know that if we were walking as we are actually called to walk, you would hate us even more. Please forgive us for not loving you the way we have been called to.



§ 7 Responses to From a thread

  • kelly0182 says:

    thank you. that’s all I can say without getting super emotional.

  • frodo_esque says:

    Thanks for your perspective.
    It is not the government’s place to fix society and solve the woes of humanity. That is the Church’s calling, and our burden.
    How does this apply to those Americans who aren’t Christians?

  • sk8eeyore says:

    Thank you. I agree with the whole post, but this is the part that hits home with me today:

    If you are not a Christian, I beg pardon for the horrible witness you have probably received from myself and my brothers and sisters. You are right to call us hypocrites, but I know that if we were walking as we are actually called to walk, you would hate us even more. Please forgive us for not loving you the way we have been called to.

  • DT says:

    How does this apply to those Americans who aren’t Christians?
    I’m not sure if I understand your question. Do you mean, do non-christian Americans have a civic duty to their fellow man? I would say, yes, in that all of humanity should behave humanely to one another; that no man is an island, and we have a responsibility to those in our community. But we already know that this does not happen quite the way it should.
    From a Christian perspective, God sent Jesus into the world to redeem it from its cursed state. When Jesus came, and died on the cross and rose again, He defined a new society which was to be separate from this world, yet remain in it as His continuing presence and active influence. He calls this society His Kingdom here on earth, and the Christian Church is supposed to be that Kingdom. We are supposed to be an alternate solution to the problems of this world, and an answer to all of the hurts and evil therein.
    The Christians of the first couple of centuries after Christ, and the ones described in the New Testament of the Bible, did just that. They saw themselves as one of two kingdoms, the kingdom of this world, and the kingdom of God. They knew that the two could not be mixed. They held a common view of property amongst themselves, so they could say there were no poor in their midst. If they heard of suffering or need in another city or country, they would send support, money and food. They were very quick to provide assistance for those around them, whether they were believers or not, because they saw themselves as the rescue boat in a stormy deadly sea.
    Unfortunately, today, most Christians have been brought up in a tradition that does not see things as cut and dried as those early Christians and so attempt to mix God’s Kingdom with this world’s. It won’t work, and isn’t supposed to. You cannot legislate godliness, nor can you make a non-Christian act like a Christian.
    That’s not to say that as human beings we are not born with that divine spark, and a conscience which should cause us to “do right” by our fellow man. Christian or not, we should all do our best to be kind, loving and gracious.
    Everyone has a responsibility to their fellow man. But I do not believe it is the government’s role to enforce that duty, or override it. The government shouldn’t take care of people, people should take care of people. And I believe that a Christian’s duty goes above and beyond, to the point of laying down one’s life for our fellow man, with a special equipping that comes from the Holy Spirit to accomplish the impossible.

  • DT says:

    I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate or not to apologize for so many, but I feel like this generation of believers has a responsibility to this generation of souls… and so far we’ve either shirked it or muddled it terribly.

  • I agree with you but at the same time I disagree with you.
    Abortion should be very strictly monitored. While you say it doesn’t happen all that often (as a victim of rape and incest) it happens more than you think. It instances like that or the instance that testing shows there is something wrong with a child that will prevent them from having any sort of life beyond laying in a bed; I ask you, is it right to make the child suffer?
    Howevery… abortion should NOT be used as just some other form of birth control. I do agree that abstinence is always the best but if a couple insists then there are other forms of b.c., condoms, pills, patches, IUD… the list goes on and on. One thing most women don’t realize is that every D&C she has makes it harder for a embryo to implant into the uterine wall as such making it harder to have children.
    No, I’m not a Christian. I am happily Pagan. And the only Christians I hate are those who don’t take no for an answer and feel the need to prove me that their particular denomination is the ONE TRUE way. Sorry… Shakespeare said it best “Oh, what is in a name? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.” I’ll give anyone extra props if they can name the play.
    Anyways… just my own two cents.

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